Session 2 -The Hebrew Gospel of Matthew – Nehemia Gordon
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Join us on the Open Door Series Virtual Tour and decide for yourself if this radical Methodist preacher and renegade Jewish scholar can teach you anything from the word of God.
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October 25, 2013 at 4:57 pm /
Another thread to elaborate upon concerning the Greek Jesus vs. the Jewish Yeshua.
John 5
45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you: Moses, on whom you have set your hope. 46 For John 5
45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you: Moses, on whom you have set your hope. 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?”
Do you think this statement is more of a Greek Jesus, or is it a sound Jewish Yeshua statement? Why? Why not?
46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?”
October 25, 2013 at 4:53 pm /
Nehemia, can you help me understand this passage of Matthew.
Jesus recounts the episode where David flees from Saul and goes to Nob to the priest Ahimelech, who gives him the holy bread to eat.
According to the law of Moses David had transgressed and deserved to die, yet he goes unpunished.
Matthew 12
At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry, and they began to pluck heads of grain and to eat. 2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said to him, “Look, your disciples are doing what is not lawful to do on the Sabbath.” 3 He said to them, “Have you not read what David did when he was hungry, and those who were with him: 4 how he entered the house of God and ate the bread of the Presence, which it was not lawful for him to eat nor for those who were with him, but only for the priests? 5 Or have you not read in the Law how on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath and are guiltless? 6 I tell you, something greater than the temple is here. 7 And if you had known what this means, ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the guiltless.
My question:
1. What is your understanding of David’s episode. God announced to Moses that HE is a God that does not leave the transgressor unpunished. David was punished every time he sinned or made a mistake. God even punished him for having shed too much blood and prevented him to build the temple. Every time God made known to David (and to us) what HE had against him and why he was being punished. Yet God never reprehended David concerning this transgression. How do you understand this?
2. What do you think of Jesus’ argument from the point of view of a Tanak scholar. Is Jesus’argument sound or broken. Why?
I am not sure if these questions of mine are pertinent. If not, sorry.
October 25, 2013 at 4:44 pm /
Nehemia, here some examples of Yeshua either keeping the law of Moses himself or encouraging fellow Jews to keep it:
Matthew 23:1-3
23 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, 2 “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat, 3 so do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do. For they preach, but do not practice.
Luke 17:13-15
13 and lifted up their voices, saying, “Jesus, Master, have mercy on us.” 14 When he saw them he said to them, “Go and show yourselves to the priests.” And as they went they were cleansed.
Matthew 5:17
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
Luke 17:13-15
13 and lifted up their voices, saying, “Jesus, Master, have mercy on us.” 14 When he saw them he said to them, “Go and show yourselves to the priests.” And as they went they were cleansed.
Mark 1:21
And they went into Capernaum, and immediately on the Sabbath he entered the synagogue and was teaching.
Luke 2:41
Now his parents went to Jerusalem every year at the Feast of the Passover.
John 2:23
Now when he was in Jerusalem at the PassoverFeast…
John 5:1
After this there was a feast of the Jews, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.
I am trying to understand whether Jesus ever broke the law or encouraged other Jews to break the law. I have not found one instance yet, but I am not sure about an episode in John 7 where Jesus heals a man and is accused of breaking Moses’law.
Jesus justifies his action in the following way:
John 7:22-24
22 Moses gave you circumcision (not that it is from Moses, but from the fathers), and you circumcise a man on the Sabbath. 23 If on the Sabbath a man receives circumcision, so that the law of Moses may not be broken, are you angry with me because on the Sabbath I made a man’s whole body well?
For a gentile, this argument is very easy to accept. Jesus acted for the good of the man and therefore did not break the law.
My question is: what is your perspective from the karaite point of view? Can you affirm form the point of view of Moses’ law (or anywhere in Scripture) that Jesus broke the law?
Another time Jesus justified healing on the Sabbath in the following way:
Matthew 12:
And they asked him, “Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?”—so that they might accuse him. 11 He said to them, “Which one of you who has a sheep, if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will not take hold of it and lift it out? 12 Of how much more value is a man than a sheep! So it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.”
What do you think of these arguments from the point of view of the Tanak? Was Jesus a law breaker?
October 20, 2013 at 7:40 pm /
Nehemiah, please take a look at Jeremiah 31:32 (heb) and tell me why the word nathatti is translated future while Davidson’s lexicon parses it as past. I am trying to make a case for the terms of the “new covenant” being essentially the same mosaic imperatives as in the old. Nathatti is also found in gen 1:29 “I have given every green herb…” Why is Jeremiah translated “I will place my torah” when it should be “I have given my torah (in their approaching)”? Writing on hearts may be for the future, but giving of torah is a done deal at sinai, and possibly earlier. Your thoughts?
October 20, 2013 at 7:31 pm /
Nehemia, try David DeAngelo’s free material to make sense of past broken relationships. Research proverbs 31:3 and Gen 3:16 for the answers. Yah bless. We cannot evade the imperative of the male prerogative.
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